Following the formation of the new Italian government, Le Figaro spoke with Diego Fusaro, “the theorist who inspired the campaign of the Five Star Movement.” If this definition probably exaggerates his influence, it is true that the Italian essayist has often used Beppe Grillo’s blog as a tribune to diffuse his ideas against the Euro, the financial dictatorship, the theory of gender, or mass immigration.
But television especially has given Fusaro a strong visibility, by investing him with the atypical role of the young philosopher who, with his citations from Marx and his formal, even pompous terminology, professes opinions half of which would suffice to destroy his reputation in France. In a recent article published in Corriere della Sera, the philosopher Donatella di Cesare, specialist in the thought of Martin Heidegger, denounced the xenophobia and antisemitism of this “reality television philosopher.”
The least we can say is that Fusaro has effectively succeeded in filling a void in the ideological camp, by intercepting a real political demand and proposing remedies to the old problems that torment Italian public opinion. Close to the Nouvelle Droite of Alain de Benoist, Diego Fusaro is nevertheless often presented by Italian media as “Marxist.” From his side, he prefers describing himself as an “independent disciple” of the German thinker, and he seems sincerely convinced that his ideas are left wing. We met with him in order to better understand the ideas that risk becoming hegemonic everywhere in Europe today.
Groupe d’études géopolitiques – What do you think of the new Italian government?
Diego Fusaro – On March 4th in Italy, it was neither the left nor the right who won, but the people singularly as a whole, who demonstrated that the categories of right and left are outmoded. Italy is a unique laboratory at this moment, as it has succeeded where other peoples failed: it has become the vanguard of the peoples of Europe. The “national mass,” according to Gramsci’s expression, the excluded from globalization expressed themselves against it. This result is positive because it outraged the masters of international finance, like George Soros. The reaction of the markets is the sign that Italy has done something revolutionary.
You speak often about Soros , why?
Soro’s activity is incessant! Through his Open Society Foundation he acted to tear down the USSR, then he orchestrated the privatizations of the Italian national patrimony. Today he is unbridled, as the class conflict has reached its apogee. The financial elite attacks sovereign states and the ethics of peoples: it’s a decisive moment. June 10th, Soros wrote on Twitter that he was furious against Italy and populism and he would redouble his efforts, by acting against Italy. That’s what he wrote, literally! This is the situation where we are, and that proves that Italy is doing well.
So you approve of Orban’s campaign against Soros?
They often say that it’s an antisemitic campaign, but it’s not about fighting Soros because he’s Jewish: that would obviously be very bad. We must fight Soros because he’s an ultracapitalist who buys countries and destabilizes governments with his “color revolutions.” Anyhow, Soros wasn’t chased from Hungary, he was just subjected to a tax increase. That’s the truth. I think that every people must free themselves from these cynical and rootless personalities that support the financial system.
The idea of deracination is often present in your writings and speeches. To explain the crisis, for example, you speak of a “deracinated financial aristocracy.”
In my latest book, I propose a new geography of class conflict: on top there is the deracinated financial class of the great lords of speculation, like Soros precisely, and on the bottom the new “slaves,” to cite Hegel, the national popular masses. In this oppressed class, the old proletariat described by Marx converges with the bourgeoisie. Today capitalism is financial aristocracy, which lives off its speculative rents and legalized frauds like the sub-prime mortgages in the United States.
Why do you say that the divide between the left and right is outmoded?
Globalized capitalism is an eagle with two wings: the first wing, it’s the right wing of money, which destroys the state, promotes mass immigration and works for the destruction of any ethical dimension in the Hegelian sense; the second wing, left wing of mores, which instead of hindering these tendencies, legitimizes them through its “superstructures,” to use Gramsci again. And so it tells us that the state should be torn down because it’s fascist, that the family should be destroyed because it’s homophobic, that we must always import new migrants. In summation, the left wing of mores legitimizes what the right wing of money asks it to. We must react. I propose a synthesis between the ideas of the left and the values of the right in name of the National Interest; it’s also the name of my association.
For you, what are these left wing values?
Labor, Solidarity, Defense of the Weakest, Community in the sense of Costanzo Preve.
And right wing values?
Family, Fatherland, State, Honor.
Regarding these right wing values, you’ve often denounced the theory of gender, could you reiterate your analysis for our readers?
The theory of gender embodies the project of the New World Order in the area of sexual mores. Its goal is to destroy the family, this “genetic cell” according to Hegel on which the entire society rests. Hegel told us that citizens are a universal family in the state. So the project of the globalists is to destroy the family and the state, the family as genetic cell and state as “the fulfillment of ethics.”
In order to do that, they destroy the basis of the family, that is to say sexual difference, through the ideology of sexual postmodernism which negates identities. In the same fashion that the liberal destroys the state, the gender fluid libertine attacks the family. Thus only atoms remain in a context of erotic free exchange without bonds. The family is dissolved and there only remains an atomized system of pleasure seeking individuals, without ethical value or stable bonds.
These authors are precisely the remedy against the de-virilization in progress! Because de-virilization bases itself on the destruction of man, who is a political animal as Aristotle said: so man doesn’t exist as a simple atom but in relation to the community. De-virilization precedes the atomization of society, that is to say the opposite of the “community” of which Aristotle, Hegel, and Marx spoke. Today there is only the omnipotent atomized individual, animated by an unlimited consumerist will to power whose consequence is “gender fluidity,” this idea that everyone can quite simply decide if he is a man, a transgender woman, or who knows what! They present it to us as a form of emancipation, but on the contrary it’s the acme of capitalism: we become pure asexual consumers without identity.
What the political forces in Italy that converge on this defense of traditional values?
I avoid utilizing this word “traditional values.” For me what counts before all are the solid and communitarian roots of society, what Hegel called “ethical roots;” the family of course but also unions, school, health-care, and especially the sovereign and national state. So we must denounce capitalism as Marx did and reclaim ethics with Hegel. These themes have been reprised by the Lega and the Five Star Movement, who understand that globalist capitalism is an evil, so we must react. But in Italy this camp is still too fragmented: there is People of the Family, the souverainistes, but we need a unitary vision to guide this revolt against globalized society. We must start from Hegel, in order to defend communities.
Have your ideas, which could have been considered extremist a few years ago, become hegemonic in Italy today?
They are the ideas that my teacher Costanzo Preve defended, which are defended in France by Alain de Benoist: they are left wing ideas with right wing values, and they are actually in the process of becoming hegemonic. For me “hegemonizing” the public debate means, according to the Gramscian technique, patiently creating a shared horizon of struggle against capitalism, by bringing together individuals who come from very different political horizons to create a counter-culture that becomes increasingly consensual, utilizing the spaces left by television, the press, and publishing to overthrow this singular thought [Translator’s Note: The original French term « pensée unique » is difficult to translate exactly, under the rule of « pensée unique » everyone must think the same. « Pensée unique » can be compared to « monnaie unique », « marché unique », « Dieu unique », etc.] that dominates us. We are in the process of achieving it, look at Salvini and Di Maio: they have metabolized some of our ideas.
Do you see other convergences with French intellectuals?
I have admiration for Serge Latouche, with whom I’m in contact. I don’t truly adhere to the cause of de-growth, but I appreciate that it understands the need to impose limits on triumphant capitalism. I was in contact with the late André Tosel. And I admire Jean-Claude Michéa a lot. But the thinker closest to me is, doubtlessly, Alain de Benoist.
In an article published online last year, you denounced a project to replace the European population that was conceived in 1953 by Count Kalergi, a conspiracy theory that has had a certain success on the Italian web …
I didn’t say that there was a real conspiracy behind this replacement! But Count Kalergi put down the logic of the dominant class in black and white in his “Practical Idealism”: of course it’s done to lower the cost of labor through relocation and mass immigration. So immigration is evidently a weapon in the hands of this dominant class: it’s a mass deportation bringing millions of African slaves to Europe.
You often denounce the role of NGOs that operate in the Mediterranean …
The NGOs are instruments of mass deportation: they want us to believe that they act in the name of civil society, but in truth they are on sale to the private interests of the lords of globalism who always want more immigration.
What’s your idea to resolve the migrant crisis?
We must go to the root of the problem. These migrations were provoked by the bombings of Libya, so we must firstly cease these types of imperialist practices. Until 2011 there was a legitimate government: Gadaffi had a few flaws of course, but he’s still preferable to what happened after. And you, in France, don’t you ever ask why these migrants arriving from Africa speak your language? I’ll tell you. They didn’t do Erasmus [Translator’s Note: Erasmus is an EU student exchange program] or get into the École normale supérieure: they come from your colonies.
Should the fact that you’ve written in Le primato nazionale, organ of the movement Casapound that claims a “fascism for the third millennium,” be interpreted as a form of adhesion to this movement?
I’ve also written for the daily papers such as La Stampa and Il Fatto, which have very different political positions, much more centrist. For me, fascism and anti-fascism are on the same level: two forms of stupidity that globalized capitalism uses to distract the masses. It’s a way to stoke conflicts and prevent people from seeing the real enemies. But what is anti-fascism worth today when the fascist threat isn’t real? Today anti-fascism has become a tool of the glamorous and cosmopolitanism left to defend capitalism. And when fascism really appears, for example during the Ukrainian coup d’état in 2014, our Eurocratic left applauds it! And the only one to combat it gloriously, named Putin, is treated as a fascist himself! It’s the height [of hypocrisy]. Anti-fascism is a weapon of legitimation for capitalism, an article from the catalog of the politically correct cosmopolitan.
After your philosophical studies, you were no longer affiliated with any university, how do you explain that?
Singular thought expels everything that is foreign to it. In other times, I would have probably been burned at the stake like Giordano Bruno, or killed like Socrates. I endure the contempt of the cosmopolitan intelligentsia. Nevertheless today I teach courses in an “institute of higher learning,” the IASSP, an “independent doctoral school.” There we want to create a school of non-aligned thought, with professors such as Emanuele Severino and the anti-Euro economist Alberto Bagnai, elected with the League. I am also going to teach courses in economics at the “European School of Economics” in Florence. As you can see, new spaces are created with willpower. It’s what Gramsci called the “the optimism of the will.”
Is your economic vision inspired by Marx?
I’m not interested in Marx the economist, but in Marx the philosopher: the Marx of the theory of alienation, of the perversion of mankind in the face of capitalism, the Marx who thought in Hegelian categories. In sum, the idealist philosopher. My thesis, which was Costanzo Preve’s, is that Marx’s materialism is nothing other than a metaphor. Basically, he was a Hegelian in his conception of historical totality; and a Fichtean concerning praxis.
Some time ago you defended the need to create an Italian National Front. Are you a philosopher or a militant?
I am a militant in the sense of Fichte, as I’m an intellectual who thinks within society and acts within society. But I have no party membership card, I’m in dialogue with all parties who are willing to discuss, while having my independent association for the defense of the national interest. I think that the relation between Italy and Europe must be reversed: we must stop being subject to Europe, our voice must be heard.
I want a Europe of free peoples, each with its specificities, that is to say the opposite of present day Europe, which destroys identities in order to replace them through a singular anglophone model, the consumer of merchandise, using a postmodern currency that doesn’t recall anything about the histories of the peoples. You realize: before, the portraits of the great personalities of Italian history were engraved on our currency!
Do you fear the consequences of leaving the Euro?
What I fear, it’s the consequences of remaining in it. There is a European ideology, as Marx said there was a “German ideology”: moreover, the two coincide because the European Union serves the interests of the Germans. European ideology tells us that we are subject to a tragic fate if we dare leave the Euro. And yet, look at what tragedies are happening within the Euro: lost wages, the reduction of social rights, tragedies for peoples like in Greece.
I say that the only measure that can guarantee workers’ interests is the return to economic sovereignty. We need a social souverainisme as Jacques Sapir said. We can even say a left wing social souverainisme if we want to use this category, which is not mine. But I’ll be clear that souverainisme has nothing to do with fascism.
Then why do the Lega and the Five Star Movement no longer speak of leaving the Euro since the election?
Because it’s the most difficult thing, we must put the whole European System into question. But I don’t think that this project has been definitely abandoned, on the contrary it has been hidden, as the economist Paolo Savona argued for with his “plan B.”
You’ve often displayed your sympathy for Vladimir Putin. Do you think that Europe’s destiny is Eurasian, like many of your fellow travelers?
Absolutely, because we must liberate ourselves from Atlanticist domination. The European Union is a base of cultural, economic, and social Americanization of our old continent. In Italy we have 115 American military bases, so if Washington decides to bomb Belgrade, Rome must acquiesce like a zombie. I think that Putin’s Russia has a fundamental role to play to guarantee multipolarity by resisting imperialist Atlanticism today. Obama said “Yes, we can,” and Putin responds to him: “No, you can’t.” That’s the great historical mission of Putin’s Russia.
Maybe that explains your proximity with Alexander Dugin … Must we believe that beyond the national cultures you defend, transnational political convergences exist?
Certainly. I have many relations with France, Germany, and Russia, including relations with Dugin, of course, with whom I participated in a conference last week. I support the cultural solidarity of peoples in order to defend their nations. Thus a Europe composed of sovereign states, in contrast to this Europe that murders peoples and their working classes.
One last question: why do you speak in such an archaic and stodgy Italian?
It’s my form of resistance to the global newspeak of the markets, mercantile English with its austerity and spending review. I respond to this Orwellian nightmare with what I call “Old Testament language”: a language made of outmoded words, which are not normally utilized on Facebook or Twitter, a language that recalls the language of Dante and Machiavelli, Giovanni Gentile and Antonio Gramsci. It’s a conscious choice, a cultural reaction to the dominant Anglophone barbarism. I believe that every people, as Hegel said so well, has the right to speak its own national language, because without a national language we would lose our relationship with things and become foreigners in our own Fatherland.